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faith, knowledge, lady ozma, lds, mormon, news, pew forum, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
A new study out by the Pew Research Center takes a look at religious knowledge across the United States. Some are shocked by the results, while others are not. What are your thoughts on the study stating that the most knowledgeable groups about religion comprise of atheists, Jews, and Mormons?
These findings resulted in quite a few ruffled feathers as well as intrigue. The findings purely fascinated me.
The first thing that needs stating is that the headlines touted the knowledge of three distinct groups that might upset many mainstream Christians, however the news is not all bad for them. The question one might ask is, why did they score under the other three groups? One might also ask, just how much under did mainstream Christians perform?
Truthfully? Not bad. Not great, but not bad. Here’s the base results of the 32 question quizze given to more than 3,000 Americans:
With an national average of 16 out of 32 questions correct, here’s the average breakdown by subgroup:
Atheists/Agnostics – 20.9
Jewish – 20.5
Mormon – 20.3
White Evangelical Protestant – 17.6
White Catholic – 16.0
White Mainline Protestant – 15.8
Nothing in Particular – 15.2
Black Protestant – 13.4
Hispanic Catholic – 11.6
So sure, there’s a definite drop after you see the top three, but it’s not all bad. There was definite evidence that amount of schooling, background, and location played a role in how well people did. Unless you were Jewish or Mormon. Those two groups outperformed regardless of education level which is something to look at in and of itself.
Studies have long since proclaimed Mormons and Jewish to be among those that value education. This is probably a good reason behind the results of this study. But here’s a look at some of the reasons that perhaps Mormons outperformed their Christian counterparts, taken from my own musings as well as quick discussions with other Mormons in leadership and non leadership positions.
Now, I know this study isn’t going to prove to all the Christians out there that we are Christian, regardless of our using the name of the Savior in our Church name. (That’s right, while we’ve come to accept people calling us Mormon, which was once a derogatory slur, the actual name of our church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Sadly, there are many that I’ve met who did not know this and seemed surprised that we would use the name of he-who’s-church-it-is in the actual name of our church. Good surprise, but surprise none the less.) I think it is safe to say that regardless how you feel about us, we do seem to know our stuff.
According to the study, Mormons scored the highest on Biblical knowledge with 7.9 out of 12 questions correct. (White evangelicals came in second with 7.3 correct.) We also scored third highest in the world religions category with 5.6 out of 11 questions answered correctly. (Above us were Atheists at 7.5 and Jews at 7.9.)
Now, to the reasons:
One of the first things out of people’s mouths: Seminary. For non-Mormons out there, Seminary is typically thought of as the school one must attend in which to become a clergyman. If someone says they are entering the Seminary, you know they want to be some sort of preacher, pastor, or the like. For Mormons, with a lay (IE: non paid made up of the general public of the congregation) ministry, we don’t have anything like this.
So what is Seminary? It’s a four year study of scripture that our high school age students around the world participate in. If you are lucky enough to live in Utah, or somewhere with an overwhelmingly high Mormon population this can get placed into your normal school day. For the rest of us unlucky souls, this means an hour of instruction before the school day starts. Seminary in my congregation runs from 6-7 AM Monday-Friday. This is free for all high school students and a requirement if you want to attend BYU. Each year you study a different book of Scripture. For those unsure what our scriptures are that would include a full year for the Old Testament, the New Testament, The Book of Mormon, and finally the Doctrine and Covenants (IE History of the Church).
That’s a good start to learning about religion, especially our own. We also have courses at the college level open to all adults. At BYU this is required of all students, and areas in America offer it primarily for college-aged adults and sometimes for those past the typical college age and is called Institute. It builds on what you learned in Seminary.
The very next thing involved our Church worship. We attend three hours of Church on Sunday alone. Twice a year, the leaders of the Church itself speak to us for 12 hours in one weekend. (With an additional hour and a half the week before geared toward teen girls and their leaders in the spring and all adult women in the fall.) If you want to check it out, it streams live over the internet, on BYU TV, on smart phones with the Mormon Radio app, and in some areas on local tv and is this very weekend. These proceedings are translated live into dozens of languages and you can download within about four hours these proceedings to listen to you on your mp3 player, home computer, or what have you. And in one month’s time we can receive a published version of the addresses in print which are then used as lessons on the fourth Sunday of each month as well as whatever personal study we’d like to do on our own. And, by the way, you can read conference address for several decades on the church website.
Which segways right into that… according to this study nearly half of Americans (48%) say that outside of their scripture, they do not read books on religion or use the internet to learn about even their own church. Of course only 37% said they read their scripture at least once a week outside of services. However black Protestants (29%), white Evangelicals (30%), and Mormons (51%) stated that they DID read books about religion and accessed the web to learn about their own religion at least once a week. I can attest that we use lds.org on a daily basis in my house. I will also attest to having people call me for information and I’ll say, "But that’s on lds.org" and then end up pulling the information for them anyway.
Another factor that probably allowed us to score high in this survey is our missionary action. You can spot our 20 year old Elders a mile away. Who else would be at the Boy Scout Jamboree in a white shirt, black pants, and a tie when it’s 112 degrees outside? Or riding a bike in a non-urban area? Even the Kirby salesmen leave the suits at home. These boys look like door to door bankers when they are tracting. A mission is typically a two year long, full time, at the cost of the misisonary and his family experience in which daily scripture study is required, meeting people with different beliefs is a given, and can even include learning another language in a matter of months. (Women can also serve missions that include the same requirements but are 18 months in duration.)
There’s other factors from our encouragement of weekly family nights which are supposed to include a lesson, family scripture study, study between husbands and wives, attending the Temple for further worship and edification between Tuesday and Saturday, the training our members receive throughout the year in fulfilling their duties in the congregation, and preparing for lessons or addresses. (For example I just spoke for about ten minutes at a baptism of two girls on not only baptism but the Holy Ghost. I’ve spoken to the church membership about Temple work, prayer, family history, overcoming adversity, the meaning of Christmas, blessings, and the power of the priesthood. Who knows what my next address will be on!)
There’s plenty of other things I heard mentioned that I could expound on, but I think I’ve done enough for now. I will say I found the study fascinating. And scary. Are there really people who think that Stephen King wrote Moby Dick? Yikes!
At any rate, maybe now that you can see some of what Mormons do, you can understand the results. These programs and expectations must factor into the results in some way. Have you any thoughts?
If you want to read more, here’s the link pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx
There is also a quizze of fifteen questions based off the full quizze you can take. What religion was Mother Teresa, who founded the Mormon religion, who started the reformation, what is Ramadan, and other such questions. All are multiple choice which makes it a bit easier.
–Lady O
Lady Ozma's Journey 
xo_kizzy_xo said:
I got 14 out of 15 correct on the quiz — I didn’t realize using the Bible as literature in the classroom is permitted. I’m a nonpracticing Catholic…
I agree with you with the education slant of both LDS and Jews. I’m surprised Catholics didn’t score higher, considering Jesuit teachings are part of the theology.
As for the agnostics/atheists scoring the highest, my theory is, to arrive at their belief/nonbelief, they must have a general framework on which to base it, and they can only do that by having some knowledge of major religions.
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Lady Ozma said:
Good job!
I remember reading the Bible in public high school as literature which is probably why I knew that. But the Supreme Court has said that is permissible as well as comparing religions. Unfortunately there’s a lot of misinformation because the religious right want to just promote that public schools are all liberal atheist agendas.
Some of the questions missed were Catholics did not realize that their church teaches transubstantiation. However, I went to Catholic school for three years and the nuns definitely did not teach that… so there is that. I know a lot of people seem to have forgotten the Jesuits as well. There was this book that was popular about nine years ago and it dealt with Jesuits and I can’t even begin to tell you how many people I talked to about the book said they’d never even heard of Jesuits before. Surprised me, but I studied religion on my own as well as in private school and Sunday services at a variety of churches. I came to Mormonism after studying many religions. So maybe I just carry more random religious trivia in my head then normal folks who grow up in a church and then stay with that faith for their life… I don’t know.
I really think that with the push for education, just general education not even specifically religious, that is why both the Jewish and Mormons scored so high. And frankly Atheists aren’t just atheist, they come to that from study. The quote I hear most is that the way you make an Atheist is to hand them a Bible. So same goes for them. It is a common misconception that scholars and scientists are non-believers and that sort of stereotyping generally happens for a reason such a at least noticeable proclivity to be true. Of course our seminary teacher is a very skilled neurosurgeon, we have a friend that’s a rocket scientist who’s done things that would make your head hurt contemplating, and our area patriarch is a physicist. So I personally know men of science that have no problem believing in a God. So *shrug*. Of course one of the main leaders for our church was a skilled heart surgeon and another was a nuclear engineer. Others served as state Supreme Court Justice, worked as lawyers, successful businessmen, scholars, and attended schools like Harvard and Stanford. So these are men who daily testify of Christ and yet are highly educated and/or men of science. Gotta watch out for stereotypes sometimes. 🙂
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xo_kizzy_xo said:
Re: Good job!
But remember where you live, too — that no doubt accounts for the high number of scholars in your church (temple)? You’re not going to find that level of education everywhere.
Transubstantiation…that was one of the first things we were taught back in CCD before we received our First Communion! And what you said about the Jesuits completely confounds me…wow, maybe in other areas of the country that’s very true, but the Jesuits are responsible for most of the Catholic universities in this country! There wouldn’t be any Loyola universities or Notre Dames or Boston Colleges without them :insert utterly shocked look here:
(then again, I live in Irish Catholic central, so maybe that’s part of my shock)
I’ve heard that atheist/Bible quote too. I’ve also never subscribed to the belief that all scientists are atheists — like with any other group of people, some are while some aren’t. The stereotype no doubt came from the observation that at some point there were more nonbelieving than believing scientists — maybe it stemmed from the theory of evolution and the Scopes monkey trial? Nevertheless, it’s a stereotype that has stubbornly remained…???
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: Good job!
I’ve lived across the country and seen scholars everywhere. One of the basic things we espouse is the need for education. Joseph Smith set up The School of the Prophets for adults to learn more. In non-religious communities he’s spoken highly of in regards to adult education. Once more, the main body of our church leadership, IE those that lead the church in its entirety, are very highly educated individuals. Our children give addresses in Primary (read children’s church) and at the age of 12 our young men and young women are asked to give addresses in the main service. Caramon spoke to the main body of our congregation the week after he turned 12. When we speak in Church we are generally given a topic and a duration to fill. Furthermore my Church has set up the Perpetual Education Fund on a global level to help those in developing areas get a better education. (You can learn more at: http://pef.lds.org/?locale=eng )
So education has always been highly esteemed which is probably why I know so many people in demanding positions. It was like that in small little Ashland, Ohio, Eastern NC, even those that I’ve met in areas like rural Mississippi strive to improve their educational standard. We’re crazy people who are constantly learning. I heard a youth speaker refer to a 90 year old woman going to college to study geology because she wanted to continually be learning.
Obviously there’s a disconnect somewhere because 45% of Catholics interviewed were unaware that their Church teaches that the host becomes the literal body of Jesus Christ as opposed to being the figurative body of Jesus Christ. I just know that I was unclear on that fact and I attended Catholic school and was required to take a religion class taught by nuns. And I thought everyone knew about Jesuits, but I’m not kidding. I went to hear the author of the book I mentioned speak at a university and many of the people at the function had no clue who Jesuits were before reading the book. I thought the use of the Jesuits was absolutely brilliant! As for Notre Dame, I didn’t know that a Jesuit founded school, but I knew it was Catholic. Of course I’ve never heard anyone talk about it after getting out of Catholic School except to talk about the Notre Dame football team.
I really have no idea why the stereotype of scientists being atheist has remained. I suppose there are areas where there is an overwhelming case of this. I know the scientists of faith I know say that the more they learn about science the more it strengthens their own personal testimony of deity. Likewise, I do know several people who say the more they learn the more they realize there’s no way that there is a deity. *shrug* I do think that stereotypes come around for a reason, but that doesn’t make them solidly true. Just a “sometimes this is true”. Sadly, I believe the stereotype is likely to remain. People find it easier to not look past the surface. Of course most people might be shocked to know that Charles Darwin, a man constantly vilified by religious types, once wanted to join the clergy.
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swampfaye said:
Yes, but some of the questions were completely out of there – like the ones about Greek Mythology. How is that related to any modern religion? I think it would have been a more accurate study if they asked people about their OWN religion and history and not religion and history IN GENERAL. Studying the history of Islam when you are Hindu is completely unrelated to how well you know YOUR religion – and if everyone knew their own religion better, there would be no need for other people to know it, they could just ASK.
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Lady Ozma said:
I don’t think the questions were out there
First of all, asking about Greek mythology when the Greek culture has greatly influenced many aspects of life today is not a bad thing. And sadly more people knew that Zeus was the Greek King of the Gods (65%) than knew that Ramadan was the Islam holy month (52%), the Koran was the Islam holy book (54%), Joseph Smith was Mormon (51%), Martin Luther inspired the reformation (46%), or John Edwards participated in the the First Great Awakening (11%)
When you do a study like this you want to have questions focusing on general knowledge to show that people are not uneducated as a whole, but just unaware of their own tenants. And, since it was a comparative study of religious knowledge, furthermore of religious knowledge in a country where there are many religions, they needed to cover a variety of religions. Sadly, people knew more about other faiths than their own in some cases.
More people knew that Joseph Smith was Mormon than they knew about their own faith. Of Christians of every flavour but Mormonism and white Evangelicals only at most 19% knew that Protestants teach that Salvation comes through faith alone. White Evangelicals and Mormons knew at 28% and 22% respectively. (For information purposes only, 22% of Atheists also knew this.) Only 55% of Catholics knew that their faith teaches in transubstantiation.
Sadly more people knew who Susan B Anthony was (72% overall) than knew about their own faith or world faiths. Which, by the way, is the same percentage of those who knew who was the political party in power.
Interestingly, when asked questions on Mormonism, Mormons scored by and large higher than other religions when asked about their own faith. Sadly, more non-Mormons knew about Mormonism than even their own faith. Mormons knew at 88% when their religion was founded while the overall score was 42% for Christians, 61% for Jews, and 70% for Atheists. That’s barely less than knew Martin Luther and overwhelming more than knew John Edwards. Mormons also knew at 90% where Jesus appeared to the American people according to the Book of Mormon and 93% knew that Joseph Smith was Mormon.
Christians were asked questions about the Bible and scored poorly on that as well. Overall, only 55% of Christians knew that the Golden Rule was not one of the ten commandments, 66% knew that Genesis was the first book in the Bible, 72% knew who Moses was, 60% knew who Abraham was, and 39% knew who Job was. These questions were actually good for all the faiths since the Old Testament relates to Christians, Jews, and Muslims.
The questions did ask people about their own faith. The evidence shows, and those interviewed in reaction to this study agree, that the problem is that many Americans do not study even their own religion. People choose a faith and then stop “looking”. Of those polled, 37% read their scripture at least once a week outside of services. While that’s more than a third, that’s still nearly two/thirds of those of a faith not reading their scriptures. How do you learn about your own faith if you do not read your holy book? Also, 48% said that they “seldom” or “never” read other books about religion or visit websites about their own religion. 70% said they seldom or never read books/visit websites about other religions.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
But it has nothing to do with KNOWING your religion. It’s fine for a culture or history test, but this was supposed to be about knowing YOUR OWN religion. It was a very poorly made study.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Also, I’d like to point out that it doesn’t count “Mormons” as “Christians” and if they did, the scores for “Christians” would be much higher.
There are people who are Christian and Muslim who are not religious at all and never go to church/mosque. Converts (of which mormons mostly are and a good deal of Jews are) HAVE to study the religion as part of the conversion process. The survey doesn’t consider this – it’s like someone whose family has been in France their entire life not knowing what Waterloo is as compared to a new citizen who is REQUIRED to study the history in order to become a citizen. There are big big gaps in this study which I consider flawed because I think the people giving the study don’t understand religion at all.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
When you do a survey you need to test for general knowledge. That’s just a fact. Any good study does this. You need to make sure that the people you are surveying are not just completely out of the loop. It gives a baseline when you ask questions in regards to things everyone should know. And, once more, they did ask people about their own faith. And sadly, people did not fare well. When you look at all the things people were asked about their own faith and did poorly in, how can you say that it was poorly done?
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
My mistake, looks like they do count Mormons as Christians. But if you look at the percentages of the breakdown of the study, it’s not at all representative of the percentages in society.
It depends on what the study is for. Saying it’s good to have ‘general knowledge’ is completely subjective. General knowledge means what exactly? Everyone knows when Christmas is, Christian or not. Is that “general knowledge?” Or is knowing WHERE Jesus was born “general knowledge.” What is “general knowledge” of “the classics?” Your list is going to be completely different than mine, but it doesn’t mean I have less “general knowledge.” That term in itself is so misleading. “General knowledge” could be something completely different in only a year.
I just can’t jump for joy with this study. I find it very biased.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Many Catholics attend Catholic schools. I’m not Catholic nor have I ever been Catholic and I attended a Catholic school. A school where I did not learn about transubstantiation I might add. Catholics also require classes to prepare for first communion and for confirmation. And a good deal of Jews are converts? That’s the first time I have heard that. The only Jewish converts I know are those who married someone who was Jewish. However, like the Catholics, the Jewish people have their own educational system and requirements. I will give you that Mormons have a high conversion rate, however Mormons also require a lot of education of their membership. All high school students attend a 4 year seminary program and college students attend another 4 year educational program called Institute. While serving a two year mission, Mormons are required to study each and every day. Right now we are gearing up for a worldwide semin-annual conference that will involve 10 hours of sermons between Saturday and Sunday. Feel free to watch some of it. So that shows that even non-converts study. In case you want to know, we have all but one of the teenagers in our congregation attending the Seminary class. The one does it via home study. Both of our exchange students, one Buddhist and one Muslim, attended Seminary by their own free will. We gave them the option and they wanted to attend since all of their friends attended. Schada really enjoyed it because she was here for the Old Testament and being Muslim that pertained to her faith. Som liked it because she gained a further understanding of what we believed in because she was here for The Book of Mormon. Every one of our teens attending were born to parents that are Mormon, and a good half are from families that are several generations Mormon. And I’d like to point out I live in VA, not Utah. In my area there’s about 400,000 residents and only 4,700 of us are Mormon. There are many in my congregation that are several generations Mormon, not first generation. I am a convert myself, but my husband grew up in the Church.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Right, but let me point out that if you did this survey in a deaf branch, or a Spanish Branch, you’d get a completely different outcome for Mormons ‘knowing’ their religion – because you don’t know the information THEY think is general doesn’t mean you don’t know your religion (this should be especially true for anyone who bases their religion so wholly on PERSONAL REVELATION. Faith and what God requires from a person in their relationship with him can not be measured on paper). There are all sorts of problems I have with this survey, and that is just one of them.
Wine, drinking, beer, ale IS a part of culture – does that make Utah Mormons less informed about ‘general culture” because they don’t know ale from mead? You see what I mean?
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I’m sorry if I’m not completely clear either, because I’m on pain meds and not really that clear in my head. But I do know there is no consensus from ‘religious experts’ in this survey on what constitutes ‘general religious knowledge’ and that’s where my problem is. I would also have a problem if they made a list of what should be ‘general knowledge’ especially with regards to Christians who believe that, gospel knowledge or no, the light of Christ is in all – and knowledge of the gospel is not necessary to live it. I think CS Lewis would agree with me on that.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
You need to inquire as to outlier knowledge not pertaining to the study itself. General knowledge of things learned in school. Greek mythology is discussed in the third grade. Questions like Susan B Anthony and the Vice President. While you could argue that Mother Theresa being Catholic might only relate to Catholics, but she’s quoted by religious and non religious alike because she is a major world figure in modern day.
I do not think the study is biased. They really worked hard to try to sample people of a variety of faiths. They tried to gear towards things people should know. And some of the results were surprising. I would have thought that in the south the religious knowledge would have been higher than elsewhere in the nation but actually it was lower.
I understand that some people are taking it as a personal offense, and to those who are knowledgeable about their religion, I can understand that. Unfortunately I have met ministers that did know who Samuel was even though there’s two books bearing his name in the Old Testament. Once more, I attended Catholic School and was under the impression that Catholics believed the host to be figuratively the body of Christ and not literally. Talk about a fail there. And I know so many people who do not know their own basic history. So obviously there IS a problem. with properly educating people about their faith.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I didn’t get Greek mythology until junior high school. I didn’t study the bible at all until Seminary. I know much more about Celtic mythology than the life of the prophet Joseph Smith, but that’s because it’s a personal interest.
Still, you’re very good to let me discuss this so thoroughly on your livejournal. You are a very patient soul. God bless you just as thoroughly!
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I was thinking about it and I do think I would be much more comfortable if this were stated as ‘religious culture’ – I think it’s the ‘general knowledge’ about religion thing that really bothers me. Because setting standards for what other people should know about their own religion or about other religions seems like direct interference with God and the way he communicates individually. If it was about culture, it wouldn’t be about faith, which would make me more comfortable. Words are very important in a study, and I know they are measured, especially with a sociological/anthropological/psychological field like this particular study.
I did, however, post this study on my facebook yesterday and say “HAHA@!” to the people who say Mormons aren’t Christians (because at least it’s clear they know more about Christianity than most Christians, which I accept based on personal experience more than the study).
Thank you again tho Ozma, you are a true saint. And when we are all in Heaven, I will come to you for couponing advice, seriously, I wish I could do what you do with coupons so I will definitely seek you out in the hereafter.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I see your point about phrasing. This definitely does cover more culture. Then again, there were basic tenants that people were failing to know, so I wonder what would happen if you did poll people about actual deep dogma… could be an interesting study.
I can see your “haha”. Like I said in my entry, I don’t think this study is going to convince those certain types that Mormons are Christian, but you definitely can’t say that Mormons “do not know” as people do try to argue. You’d be surprised at the stuff I hear people say. *SIGH* Too bad people are like that, right? And I’m glad you’ve had good experiences with Mormons. 🙂
I will look forward to seeing you in Heaven. 🙂 And thanks for the compliment on my couponing. I try! 🙂 Anytime I can help, I will!
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I wouldn’t know that Greek Mythology is third grade if I didn’t have kids. Like I remember when I studied stuff? I read the Odyssey in 4th Grade under my desk. That’s the best I can tell you from my own schooling. LOL 🙂 But I think that since that is taught in schools, that it was a good question. It’s not like they asked what Ragnarok is… no one teaches Nordic mythos. Sadly. 😦
In the Mormon church our high school students do read the Bible and study it over the course of two years. Of course in children’s church (ages 3-11) the children sit through two hours of scripture stories and songs about scripture stories and are given gospel topics to speak on to the other children.
One of the things that I like about the study is how detailed it got and I think that the news articles have sort of misrepresented it. So in talking to you, I was able to bring out more things it said. It kind of bugs me that all the news reports are running around and making it sound like outside of Atheists, Jews, and Mormons that America is a bunch of religious ignorant folk. That’s just simply not true. I know a great many knowledgeable people of a great many faiths. Of course that’s how it goes with averages. Sure less than half of protestants knew that Martin Luther influenced the Reformation, but that does mean people DID know. Just others did not. That’s fine. I know Caramon can recite every prophet our church has had in order but I’m lucky to name half of them and definitely wouldn’t be in order.
At any rate, I’m always up to discussion. I actually got to talk with a great many people helping out with something with this study’s results coming out and it was very rewarding of an experience. I’m glad I could continue it on my blog with people like you! OK… mostly you. 🙂
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Actually the one thing about our church is it is the same no matter where you go. I’ve been a deaf interpreter before. I also have a friend who married a man from Hondurus so now they attend a Spanish branch and it is set up exactly the same as an English branch, they use the same manuals just in Spanish, and they attend the same meetings with us as a stake. For instance this weekend is our semi annual general conference which is open to all 14 million members worldwide. There is live translating into dozens of languages as the conference airs.
Our schedule is the same where ever you go. Sometimes a particular Sunday School lesson might be off a week or two depending on local conference schedules, but otherwise it is the same. I know that if I go to Church here or in Chile or in Germany that the first Sunday of the month is set aside for fast and testimony meeting, that we’re going to be somewhere around lesson #x in Sunday School and what the third hour lesson is on based on the week. This past Sunday was the fourth Sunday so it was “Teachings for our Times” and is based off several addresses from the last semi-annual worldwide conference. Everywhere in the Church has seminary and institute kids learning about Church History. It’s why we don’t really worry when we move. There’s no need to congregation hop. We just log onto LDS.org and look up the nearest meetinghouse and show up and wait for our records to show up.
Maybe you knew this, maybe not. A lot of people don’t realize that. If you get bored this weekend check out the conference that is being sent out to the entire world via satellite, cable, radio, and internet.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Not in my branch (deaf). THey only recently started teaching Gospel Doctrine. Until last year they were teaching out of the Gospel Essentials manual. And only recently from the Presidents manual in RS and PH – I know because I’m teaching now. ANd I’m sure that’s the same in many small branches around the church (Which is why I gave the example of beer, because of my experience with branches in Ireland).
I know the ‘ideal’ is that we all teach the same, but it really isn’t what happens ‘everywhere’ – not even in the US.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Um, why are you off? I’ve been in small branches and they were with everyone else. That is really strange and should be brought up to your stake president. I’ve known people who went to/are currently in branches and wards inside and outside of the US and they were also with the rest of the Church. This year you should be studying the Old Testament in Sunday School and Gospel Principles in Relief Society/Priesthood on the second and third Sunday. The Presidents Manuals were from I believe 1998 until last year. Are a lot of your members converts and that is why they were teaching Gospel Principles in Sunday School?
I’m really looking forward to studying the history of the Relief Society as announced in the meeting last week. I’m super excited! I love history and I love reading about faithful women!
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Stake Presidencies are in charge of branches, this is under their direction…
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Your branch president should be the one dealing with this and then the Stake Presidency is over the branch presidency. I wonder what the deal is with your branch being so off from the rest of the Church. Next time I go visiting teaching I’m asking. One of the women I VT is married to a stake presidency member. I mean if a high number of the membership would be attending Gospel Principles instead of Gospel Doctrine I suppose they could make that the default class. I have heard of cases where the congregations were so far off and misunderstanding that the Church took them back to the basics with Gospel Principles in order to make sure they understood the basic tenants. Gospel Principles is a really good class for that. That’s why the Church decided to do it in RS/Priesthood this year, they wanted to do a nice refresher of the basic beliefs because sometimes instructors go a little off into lala land meaning well instead of sticking to the basics of the lesson. (IE read Richard G Scott’s talk from last October: To Acquire Spiritual Guidance for a mighty fine example given of one instructor in Mexico City leading by the Spirit and another instructor in Elder Scott’s own ward that was more focused on obscure knowledge .) (I don’t begin to question what that poor teacher felt like knowing that he had an apostle in his sunday school class. I’ve subbed in Gospel Principles and we have the Stake Patriarch in there who’s one of the most knowledgeable scriptorians I know as well as our former Bishop and several other people who probably have forgotten more than I can ever aspire to know. Boy did I feel inadequate!)
I love the Gospel but I hate teaching. I consider myself a student of religion, but I know that my knowledge can only fill a thimble maybe half way so I wonder how I could ever impart any knowledge to people. I’ve had the joy of subbing for various classes three times this year, but boy was I riddled with worry and doubt! Especially when the last class ended up with three people from my ward and 10 people from across the nation. Um, thanks BSA Jamboree. LOL (Interestingly they didn’t get in to the 5,000 member Sacrament meeting and had traveled to Jambo and my ward’s young men did and we live here. HAHA This poor group didn’t know the secret way onto the base apparently so they came to our ward since it was the closest to Jambo meeting at 9 AM. Imagine our surprise as our High Priests were taking care of the Sacrament because our entire YM organization was gone and then in marches an entire troop of boys! It was the first Sunday in August so several of them got up to give their testimony. The leader was like, “We couldn’t get in to the service…” and all us moms were like ‘Um, then where are OUR sons???”
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
CRAP! You just reminded me I haven’t signed up for the Cub Scout Jam and it’s in a few weeks. I guess that’s what happens when you have had surgery, a son depart for a mission, and everything else all within the last two weeks…
Maybe it’s just the pain med.
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
Busy two weeks, eh? If it makes you feel better, I’m there as well. Birthdays, interviews for ordinations, contacting family to find out who’s coming… and of course there’s conference in between birthday and ordination to lengthen the process and we have another ordination two weeks later. Fun times. I’ll be happy when October ends! LOL
Gosh, did your son leave already? How did that happen? This stuff creeps up so fast. One boy in our ward is about to come home from Bangkok on the 15th and I swear he only just left.
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swampfaye said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
I’m also teaching temple classes to my husband, and next week have to teach RS next week (after Conference).
Sigh
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Lady Ozma said:
Re: I don't think the questions were out there
You are teaching temple classes to your husband? And you teach in RS? Sounds like you are overextended! Holy smokes. I hate that about branches.
Good luck. Sheesh.
I should look at the Temple Prep coursebook sometime. I never went to that class. We didn’t have one going on in the ward when I went through the Temple. I hear that they are supposed to be good. I wonder what is taught.
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